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Saturday, November 16, 2002
Another Keillor day
Btw I post all my articles on my website http://www.goodblogs.blogspot.com. I try to keep family or friends names out of it unless someone wants to be mentioned.
I'm sure you were wondering why I seem to be speaking to the dems or to the masses.
The site will be moved over to http://www.outspoken.us when it is finished.
I thought that Keillor already spoke his mind with that bizarre diatribe from before. Now I see that he has just started and we've yet to see how far his mania and hate for conservatives goes.
I believe he and Wellstone got along well. They had the same crazed outlook, as many in the Democratic Party have today.
I believe this sums it up perfectly. A note from Bill Moyers, from our "independent", consumer/government financed, non-profit PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/now/commentary/moyers15.html
That man says it well. Liberals hate conservatives.
I'm trying to figure out something...which group do these liberals hate more...evil people or Republicans?
I think that Keillor and people like him believe that they are one and the same.
Don't attack Iraq, he doesn't have nukes yet and we can't prove he is sponsoring terrorism against America. Against the allies...like Israel? Who cares about them? As Bonior and McDermott said in Iraq, Bush is the one lying and they trust Sadaaam more.
They accuse Republicans of being KKK members ready to drag black corpses down the street, but they are the only ones that have an actual KKK member in congress.
They accuse Republicans of not caring about humanity with the "woman's right to choose" routine, but don't care about sucking a human being out of a body with a vacuum cleaner.
They accuse Republicans of taking advantage of 9/11 and who are the ones who are outright making the accusations and taking advantage of it? The dems of course.
Examples:
Marcy Kaptur - Ohio Congresswoman - yesterday on Hannity and Comlmes she said that she believed that Bush wants war in Iraq to "pump up his corporate interest" and that the Bush family "would love to have their war to enhance their oil profits".
Billary Clinton - Accused the Bush administration of not waging a successful war on terrorism.
Daschle - coming out and claiming that we are losing the war
Cynthis McKinney - Accused Bush of knowing that 9/11 was going to happen but let it happen so that he could profit from it.
The dems talk about keeping the Social Security money in a "lockbox" but they know as most educated people know that the money isn't in any such "lockbox", it's spent on the fly. Investing a small portion of it is deemed as evil and they throw grandma down the steps as an example of what the evil Reps do.
They accuse reps of being against woman's rights. When Hillary and Co. attacked Jennifer Flowers, saying she was lying and had proof, where was the NOW? When proof of he attacks on the women that he was having affairs with came our, where were NOW & the libs? Nowhere to be found of course.
It should be NOD (national organization for democrats). They certainly don't represent any woman that has problems with dem men in office. Gary Condit anyone? Nope, NOW was once again nowhere to be found.
Dems accuse reps of being against black's. Harry Bellefonte had such warms things to say. Also, a dem yesterday threw that accusation at Hannity and he responded with facts of course. Rice, a black woman as National Security Advisor, Powell, a black man, hardly a Republican as Sec. of State and more.
What about the children in our country? If your daughter in jr. high school and gets pregnant by an abusive relationship with an older man, you can be glad to know that she will be well taken care of by our great protector of women planned extinction..whoops, I mean planned non-parenthood...whoops, I mean planned abortions...whoops, I mean planned parenthood. They will be glad to not only hide from asking important questions about why the child got pregnant, but they will go so far as to tell the little girl to keep quiet about these things so she doesn't have to bring in her parents or the law.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27804
Planned Parenthood, what a joke. Like I want an agency that profits from killing babies to be the one my daughter goes to for "advice". Plenty of people over the years have proven that they steer the women and children into the abortion. Keeping the child or giving it up for adoption won't make them a dime.
Keillor is filled with hate and his hate blazed into an inferno when he became a total loser November 5th. I know the guy would've gloated until the end of time if the dems had won the Senate and Governorships across the land. Unfortunately for him and many other rep haters that didn't happen. Now that just adds to the fire that was started when the US Supreme Court "gave" Bush the election. Let's remember that it was the Florida Supreme Court that actually broke the law and tried to "steal" the election. The US Supreme Court had to intervene and stop their attempts. My only regret was that they didn't send Marshals down to Florida to arrest those dirtbags. That warning they gave them only made them think that they were going to get away with it in the end.
Again, the only laws that were broken were by the dems. Katherine Harris, by law had to certify the election. The dem kooks went at it wrong and tried to keep recounting until the end of time (or until Gore won, whichever came first). If they would have waited until after the certification and then challenged they would have had more legal time. Their mistake. The FL. Supreme Court violated state law by trying to change written laws during an election. Naughty naughty.
The dems hollered about disenfranchisement but threw out the military votes, as they almost always do when they can.
The NJ Supreme Court succeeded in breaking their laws by allowing a losing candidate to retire under fire enabling another candidate to take his place illegally. Lautenberg is hate'n life though. He quit because the dems were in the minority and he couldn’t push through his legislation. Justice is served, cold and hard. :)
The dems were the ones that disinvited our Vice President so that he wouldn't provide any possible political effect for the reps in MN. The dems were the ones that booed Sen. Trent Lott, Governor Ventura and others, causing some rep wives to cry because they were being treated so mean at a funeral. The dems were the ones that whipped a funeral into a 4 hour political show. They were the ones that cornered a rep senator and urged him to help get a dem in office in "Wellstone's" memory.
The dems accuse the reps of corporate greed. Where did Mondale work and how much did he make? He at least admitted to Norm in the debate that he is only doing what the reps do and it can't be bad can it?
As I said earlier, the dems hate the reps. Oh well, our differing political viewpoints make for interesting debates.
Look at the last couple of Keillor diatribes. All hate speech, only scare tactics, no facts and no direct points except how Norm can't be a good guy because he doesn't like him.
The dems are desperate for a message. They've been trying for years to come up with one but no luck so far. So anything goes I guess
Btw, you dems keep slamming corporate America. That's a good thing to do to make friends. Gee, who hands out the paychecks in America? Gosh, I think it's corporate America.
-----Original Message-----
From: @att.net [mailto:@att.net]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:58 PM
To: Pete
Cc: Pete
Subject: Keillor speaks his mind about coleman
Minnesota's shame
Republicans don't like my criticism? Too bad. They have to answer for Norm
Coleman's campaign, which exploited 9/11 in a way that was truly evil.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Garrison Keillor
<<...OLE_Obj...>> <<...OLE_Obj...>>
Nov. 13, 2002 | The hoots and cackles of Republicans reacting to my screed
against Norman Coleman, the ex-radical, former Democratic, now compassionate
conservative senator-elect from Minnesota, was all to be expected, given the
state of the Republican Party today. Its entire ideology, top to bottom, is
We-are-not-Democrats, We-are-the-unClinton, and if it can elect an empty
suit like Coleman, on a campaign as cheap and cynical and unpatriotic as
what he waged right up to the moment Paul Wellstone's plane hit the ground,
then Republicans are perfectly content. They are Republicans first and
Americans second.
The old GOP of fiscal responsibility and principled conservatism and bedrock
Main Street values is gone, my dear, and something cynical has taken its
place. Thus the use of Iraq as an election ploy, openly, brazenly, from the
president and Karl Rove all the way down to Norman Coleman, who came within
an inch of accusing Wellstone of being an agent of al-Qaida. To do that one
day and then, two days later, to feign grief and claim the dead Wellstone's
mantle and carry on his "passion and commitment" is simply too much for a
decent person to stomach. It goes beyond the ordinary roughhouse of
politics. To accept it and grin and shake the son of a bitch's hand is to
ignore what cannot be ignored if you want your grandchildren to grow up in a
country like the one that nurtured and inspired you. I would rather go down
to defeat with the Democrats I know than go oiling around with opportunists
of Coleman's stripe, and you can take that to the bank.
I've run into plenty of Coleman supporters since the election and they see
me and smirk and turn away and that's par for the course. I know those
people. To my own shame, I know them. I'm ashamed of Minnesota for electing
this cheap fraud, and I'm ashamed of myself for sitting on my hands, tending
to my hoop-stitching, confident that Wellstone would win and that Coleman
would wind up with an undersecretaryship in the Commerce Department.
Instead, he will sit in the highest council in the land, and move in
powerful circles, and enjoy the perks of his office, which includes all the
sycophancy and bootlicking a person could ever hope for. So he can do with
one old St. Paulite standing up and saying, "Shame. Repent. The End is
Near."
The Republican exploitation of 9/11 for political gain is the sort of
foulness that turns young people against the whole business, and for good
reason. All sorts of people went down in the World Trade Center, execs and
secretaries and bond traders and also the dishwashers in Windows on the
World and secretaries and cleaning ladies. Think of all those portraits
of the victims that ran
daily week after week in the Times that we read, read tearfully, saw
ourselves in those lives, and the wave of patriotic tenderness that followed
was genuine and included us all. For a cynic like Norman Coleman to hitch
his trailer to that tragedy is evil -- call it by the right name. To exploit
9/11 and the deaths of those innocent people on that beautiful day in
Manhattan -- to appropriate that day and infer so clearly that there is a
Republican and a Democratic side to it, is offensive to our national memory
and obscenely evil, and it was rewarded by the voters of Minnesota.
Ordinarily, there should be a period of good feeling after an election, of
relief, or relaxation, when we join hands and become one people again, but
Norman Coleman doesn't deserve any Democrat's hand. We had come together as
one people already -- the precious gift of 9/11 -- and he used that as a
campaign ploy against us, suggesting that Democrats are unpatriotic, and he
is not to be forgiven for it. I personally don't believe he had anything to
do with the crash of Paul's plane. Plenty of people suspect he did. I don't.
But I do think he is a cynical politician who should make himself scarce for
the next few years until people start to forget his campaign.
Lord, America does love a winner. When you're riding high, people can't do
enough for you, and when you fall down low, they don't want to be around to
see. I know something about that -- every performer does -- and you quickly
recognize your false friends, the people who clutch your hand and grab your
elbow and give you a gigantic smile and tell you how much they love your
work but they get the name of the show wrong, or the day of the week, or
they mispronounce your name, and you see them clear for the phonies they
are. Norman Coleman is that very person, the false knight upon the road, and
he always has been and always will be. Paul Wellstone was a real person who
led an authentic life. The contrast couldn't be clearer.
All you had to do was look at Coleman's face, that weird smile, the pleading
eyes, the anger in the forehead. Or see how poorly his L.A. wife played the
part of Mrs. Coleman, posing for pictures with him, standing apart, stiff,
angry. Or listen to his artful dodging on the stump, his mastery of that old
Republican dance, of employing some Everyguy gestures in the drive to make
the world safe for the privileged. What a contrivance this guy is.
Paul Wellstone identified passionately with people at the bottom, people in
trouble, people in the rough. He was an old-fashioned Democrat who felt more
at home with the rank and file than with the rich and famous. (Bill Clinton,
examine your conscience.) He loved stories and of course people on the edge
tend to have better stories than the rich, whose stories are mostly about
décor and amenities.
Paul walked the walk. He was a wonder. Everyone who ever met him knew that
he lived a whole life and that he and Sheila were crazy about each other. To
be in love with one person for 38 years is nothing you can fake: Even the
casual passerby can see it. To die at 58, having lived so well and so
truthfully, is enviable, compared to the longevity of a man who invents his
own life in order to achieve the desired effect and advance himself. To gain
the whole world and lose your own soul is not a course that Scripture
recommends. You can do it so long as God doesn't notice, but God has a way
of returning and straightening these things out. Sinner beware.
posted by Peter Shinn at 12:27 AM
Monday, November 11, 2002
Jesus Loves You :)
Believe it or not I was banging the peace drum in Washington D.C. back when we attacked Iraq to kick them out of Kuwait. As far as I was concerned it was just one evil country taking over another evil country and I didn't think that we should shed American blood for it.
Notice I said in my last letter "What I do choose to debate is what is happening in the name of God now"
I can't speak for the horrors inflicted on mankind in the past. I can say that Christians currently are giving (note the word giving, not taking) their lives and money to better mankind.
I won't say that one religion is better than another. I can only speak for what I believe in.
It is a fact that western nations have saved millions of Muslims lives in the recent past by helping them in Kosovo and other countries. They don't show any appreciation or gratitude towards us, but that's okay, we were just doing what was right.
It is a fact that Arabs and communists have murdered untold millions of people in the recent past.
Sadaam is responsible for at least 1.5 million himself. The Chinese let over 20 million die during their industrial age mistake (mid 70s) with Mao.
If the stats from the US Embassy are even close:
http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/english/sandt/ru486.html
about 10 million Chinese are being murdered every year.
Look at this story from 1998. It's even from a lefty online rag..something called CNN I think:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9811/11/iraq.02/
Don't you think it's interesting that the liberals thought that it was necessary to fight Sadaam then? Everything that Bush and the Republicans are saying now, they were saying then and more.
Of course our coward in chief Clinton couldn't do it because the polls didn't support it, and the Lewinski scandal didn't require this kind of action at that time.
I have an interesting peace of information that I bet you never heard. I saw an interview with a Talaban soldier before we went to war with them. He pointed to an area that was hit by a missile and spoke of the people that were killed in that attack. Then he spoke of how they supported us and how grateful to America they were for us having helped kick the Russians out of Afghanistan.
That all changed after the missile attack he said.
That was Clinton who lobbed those missiles, during the Lewinski scandal. It was supposedly in response to the bombing of the Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia. That was all he could think to do in response to that terrorist attack that killed 19 servicemen and wounded 500 others?
Here are some recent words from the traitors McDermott and Bonier:
-------------------
Sanctions imposed on Iraq are “horrific,” Bonior said. He told of “hundreds of thousands” of children dying from malnourishment and lack of medical care. Many die of leukemia because of exposure to depleted uranium caused by bombings, he said.
McDermott, a physician, rejected claims that depleted uranium is no threat. Not only Iraqis but American soldiers are exposed, he said. McDermott recalled being told that Agent Orange was no problem.
The problem “can be resolved with diplomatic solutions,” not war, McDermott said, repeating Saddam’s promise of “unfettered access” which should be tested first. “Disarmament can be achieved without war,” McDermott said.
-------------------
Gee Ms Bonier and Ms McDermott, why do you think those sanctions are imposed on Iraq? Because they didn't finish their dinner?
Umm, no, it must be because they attacked Kuwait and were kicked out by force. And let's see, oh yeah, something about gassing their population to put down any thoughts of an uprising. And I think there was something in their agreement of surrender that said that they would allow inspectors to find and remove all weapons of mass destruction. Oh, I'm sorry, that was too long ago for those guys. They can only remember their last attack on the conservatives. They don't get the fact that they are criticizing their own mistakes from back when Ms Clinton was in charge.
And don't even give me the line "it was Bush's dad's fault, he should've finished the job. All the liberals in the world were screaming "he'd better not invade Iraq!" back then. They didn't even want him to "liberate Kuwait" back then either.
I call them traitors because if the shoe fits, wear it. Definition of traitor from dictionary.com:
Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
They flew to Iraq and called President Bush, a sitting President, a liar.
http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2002/cyb20021002.asp
After 11 years of lies, disinformation, trickery and 16 resolutions in Iraq, Bonior and McDermott have the balls, on Iraqi soil, to point the finger at a man who has never been accused of or proven to be a liar. These losers say we should give Sadaam another chance.
How many chances would you be willing to give your child if he killed someone? How many would he be allowed to murder before you did something about it?
If you told him not to take any cookies, and he promised he wouldn't, but cookies disappeared every day, would you call him on it or would you say every day "don't do it again", without punishment?
During the Clinton administration liberals spoke of the need to attack Sadaam in the same language. The inspectors constantly told us of the dodging and misinformation.
The starvation that those losers speak of is caused by Sadaam himself. He sells oil and pockets the money. They are not dying because of us and everyone knows it.
I have the balls to admit when my party makes mistakes. They do it all the time. I probably cuss Bush and team more often than not. There are plenty of things that Republicans do that I think are weak or wrong and I speak up about them. Most conservatives I know do so.
What I don't get is why liberals support everything that their party does.
When Cynthia McKinney ranted about how Bush hid information that he knew about the attack on 9/11 so that he could profit from it.
Response from congressional liberals - nothing
As far as I know the only thing that any dem responded to publicly against her was her outrageous letter to the Saudi prince:
http://miller.senate.gov/press/2001/10-16-01McKinneyLetter.htm
About Bonior and McDermott, not a peep from the party
And so on and so on.
Go ahead, point out similar events with the reps, I bet you $10 I'll back you up if it's true.
One question I want answered is, why do liberals live in America? I know that during the 70s & 80s a bunch of you moved to Russia to live with the commmies because communism had to be a great political movement.
Here is what America would be like if liberals ran it all:
1) there would be no such thing as jail. Criminals would get time out and a scolding. Then they would be given chocolate so they don't develop a low self esteem.
2) our military would be called the "world's army" and would help plant flowers and trees everywhere
3) all land would be made part of Giya (or however you spell it)
4) cars would be outlawed
5) SUVs would go first
6) it would be forbidden to water the lawn or your car (wouldn't matter, you couldn’t own a car anyway)
7) all drugs would be legal
8) kids would have sex training in elementary school. Whoops, they already do that, my bad.
9) condoms would be given out in schools. Whoops, they already do that, my bad.
10 abortion on demand without parental consent would be given to children, even those raped, molested or impregnated by an adult. Whoops, they already do that, my bad.
11. the borders would be porous and open enough to allow millions to come into America unchecked. Whoops...my bad
12. they could make up lies about people, presidents and other sitting officials without proof. Whoops..my bad
13. they would rewrite history, making white males evil and dominating, and would make our founding fathers out to be evil slave owners. Whoops..my bad
14. Israelis and the people that support them would become the Nazis. Whoops.. my bad.
15. our children would be diagnosed with illnesses that have no basis in fact or any kind of proof of existence. In response to that they will be given drugs that will make them zone out, lose their appetite, but amazingly enough, they are quiet! Whoops..my bad
16. women will be granted access to men's groups but men will be denied access to women's groups. Whoops..my bad.
17. homosexuals will make love openly in the streets and wherever else they want. Whoops..my bad
18. mainstream news agencies will attack conservatives and support liberals wherever possible. Whoops..my bad
19. Santa Claus will be banned from parades. Whoops..my bad
20. the evil rich would be taxed 90% and anyone under $50,000 a year in earnings would pay $0.
21. corporations would provide employees with weekly bonuses, at least 2 years maternity leave for woman, 1 year for men, tai chi, free coffee and donuts, guaranteed retirement pay of $50,000 a year, 20 hour work week and the lions share of the profits. After all, without the employees where would the company be?
22. minorities will be given a pass in the school system. As long as they don't shoot the teacher or commit suicide they will be allowed to move from grade to grade without challenge, as far as they want to go in the school system. Whoops..my bad
23. schools will be allowed to get rid of whatever class of people they think don't meet their requirements so that they can claim higher grade levels and greater successes in their failed systems. (yeah, it's weird, it's sort of in contradiction with the last one, but money talks).
24. home schooling will be made illegal and vouchers will be fought till the end to prevent funds from being taken frum the publik skool system. Whoops..my bad
25. hospitals will be banned as holistic healing takes over
26. Jesus will become just a swell guy, as the Dalai Lama, yoga and the art of Feng Shui take over.
That's okay all you liberals, I still believe what I said in the 70s with the peace sign held up.
Jesus loves you :)
I think that I could go on forever and ever with this. The funny thing is, any liberal that reads these bullet points will say...
What's wrong with them...they make sense to me?
-----Original Message-----
From: @att.net [@att.net]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 11:24 PM
To: pete@
Subject: facts and a prayer
Since the peponderance of the facts you give are worthier than mine I must
admit that everything you are saying is making a lot of sense to me now. I
must be wrong and christians who have been murdering for nearly 2000 years now
must be right and it's the muslims who are the true murderers and evil ones.
I now support the war effort in Irag but believe that we must make war with
all muslim nations since it is so obvious that they are the problem in this
world.
Let us pray.
Let us pray that our weapons kill more women and children than theirs do.
Let us pray that the oil present in those foreign heathen lands does not
belong to those who would make outlandish profit from it.
Let us pray that our christian good works will make up for the bombs
we drop all over the world.
Let us pray for our military stationed across the globe keeping us and
foreign countries safe from evil.
Let us pray to the god who is on our side and will turn a dear ear to those
evil ones.
ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
end of his reply to me
posted by Peter Shinn at 11:54 PM
Shallow and untrustworthy is an opinion.
You didn't say whether or not the facts that I point to on those sites were true or false, just that you noticed that they are sites most likely from a party that you disagree with. So I'm assuming that the facts listed are correct.
I listed links to sites that provide information based on history or fact. If you want to disprove their statements or facts do so.
You can't criticize or deny information just because it comes from a party persuasion that you are not a part of. I am generally more of a right winger then a left winger in politics. I say the sky is blue. Fact or not?
I expect you to link to sites that are more of your party's persuasion so that I can then disprove their statements/opinions with facts. :)
Since the only thing you challenged me on in the last 20 or so factual links that I provided you with is with the "religion of peace" I will answer that.
Answer the following questions:
1) when did Islam become a religion (obviously before the crusades)
2) did Mohammed spread his religion by the sword, kill non-believers and take over Jerusalem and other areas of the world before the crusades?
3) did the Christians respond to this and why? Was that response called the Crusades?
I can concede that throughout the last couple of thousand years or more many people have been cut down in the name of one God or another. I am not willing to debate these battles since there is no way anyone can really know what happened since we still don't know if there was a shooter in the grassy knoll. That happened only 40 years ago and we can see how history has muddled that one since then.
What I do choose to debate is what is happening in the name of God now.
Christians typically spent billions of dollars a year helping people throughout the world. We provide:
Food
Clothing
Shelter
Water
Medical aid
Psychological support
Prosthetics
Explosives removal
And more of course.
My family and many more millions of Christians support efforts to help mankind, regardless of where they are, or their political leanings.
Most of the aid provided to Africans, Arabs and all the countries that need help has been coming from western/Christian nations (including some Asian nations such as South Korea and Japan. Even Palestinians get more support for their people from the western world. The Arabs are happy to provide them with explosive belts for homicide missions, or pay their families when a member of their family murders Jews in a homicide mission.
America and other western nations are like human beings. They are growing up. They are learning from their mistakes and adapting. We have realized that we all live on this planet together and need to figure out how to get along regardless of viewpoints and religion.
I believe that the Muslim religion is going backwards compared to Christianity. I will list the following examples:
1) Christianity - Religion of forgiveness - "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone".
> Islam - well, if I must, I will get proper quotes, but I think Afghanistan was a good enough example of what they believe and where they want to go with the Islamic faith.
a) women were not allowed to work, only beg if they were poor
b) women were shot for adultery and other crimes, and that was celebrated there. If you didn't see the film in the soccer stadium, I did and it was quite gruesome.
c) women have (still in some locations) to wear burkas, even when they vomit in them because they are so hot.
d) school was forbidden for girls and women
e) you were punished severely for even minor crimes. Theft meant your feet were whipped or cut off/or hands.
2) Western worlds are typically a democracy. We elect leaders.
> Muslim Arab nations typically are dictatorships. They elect themselves.
3) Western worlds believe that we should be able to have whatever religion we want.
> The Quran states that people who don't or won't believe shall be killed or tortured.
4) Women in the western world enjoy the ability to become whatever they want in life.
> Muslamist women enjoy the possibility of death, starvation, lack of education, subservient behavior and of course much more.
I could go on & on about that "religion of peace" but I think you will agree that it would be a waste of time. With these issues you either face reality or bury your head in the sand. There is no in between.
The Muslamists have a powerful point that is attractive to Arabs (and jailed or unhappy with America blacks). Mohammed was the hand of God. He killed Jews and Christians and therefore the hand of God killed them because they were undeserving of life.
You may not like to agree with that, but if one of the biggest points of the Muslim religion is that the Quran is written by the hand of God then you have to acknowledge that in that book there are more references to killing Jews, Christians and unbelievers then not.
The only way that you could establish a comparison is if you said that people of the Christian Bible do exactly what people of the Quran do. We both know of course that this is not the case.
This person
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/prologue.htm
has some powerful points too. You may not like them, but I think the question that should be answered is, are the points linked to on his site about Quran correct or lies? If correct, since the Quran is written by the hand of God, then there will be no interpretation as there is with the Christian Bible. All statements must be followed to the letter. Anything other than that would be saying that God is ambiguous and doesn't speak clearly, and I don't believe that any Muslamist will say that.
-----Original Message-----
From: @att.net [@att.net]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:52 AM
To: pete@
Subject: the problem with the sites you chose to bolster your propaganda
Peter, the sites you use to back up your arguments are shallow and untrustworthy
and not very academic. At worst they hook up to radical militant groups
at best, i.e.
Hallam, Elizabeth (ed.)
Bramley Books, Surrey, UK. 1994. 400pp.
ISBN 1858335892
List price: £29.99
The Crusades Bookstore Review:
This lavishly illustrated coffee-table book provides modern translations of
contemporary accounts of the relations between Christianity and the rest of the
world. The term 'crusades' is applied broadly, with texts from the beginning of
the eleventh century, dealing with Christian-Muslim relations under the
Caliphs, through to Hernando Cortes and the invasion of the Americas in the
sixteenth century.
you get your history from coffee table books. Yes coffee table books.
Good luck finding sites from respected traditional academic sources.
Have a nice day.
end of his email to me
posted by Peter Shinn at 5:27 PM
Sunday, November 10, 2002
Responding to a liberal who threw an insult (yeah, it's my own brother)
I help Jews wherever I can by giving money to various organizations. I also sponsor needy children as I am able to try and make a difference in the world.
Arabs are killing Jews, Christians and anyone else that isn't Muslim by the many thousands every year. Look at just the last year alone. Africa, Indonesia, America and other countries have seen the murder of thousands in the name of Allah.
Links of reality for you, again, if you can handle the truth:
http://www.wlo-usa.org/News/Meast/Indonesia_8_13_99.html
http://www.baptiststandard.com/2001/12_10/pages/indonesia.html
http://www.geocities.com/ambon67/noframe/afp0212y2k.htm
http://www.falangist.com/moslem16.htm
http://www.barnabasfund.org/News/Archive/Indonesia/press_release_Slaughter%20of%20Christians%20grows!%2019_06_2000.htm
In the Sudan alone over 2 million Christians have been slaughtered.
http://www.conservativetruth.org/archives/tombarrett/12-16-01.shtml
Mohammed was a racist and murderer that predated the crusades. So many people believe, falsely, that Mohammed was responding to the crusades. It was the other way around. He killed many thousands of Christians and Jews before it happened the other way around. After all, there was no such thing as a Muslim before he came along and made up his "religion of peace".
http://orb.rhodes.edu/encyclop/religion/crusades/Crusade_Intro.html
One quote from that site "In the seventh century A.D., the religion known as Islam arose in the Arabian peninsula. Like Christianity, Islam officially condemned forced conversions. But unlike Christianity, Islam instructed its followers to ensure that the world was under the political control of the Faithful. Hence Islam's political domination could be, and was, spread by the sword."
Hide from it if you like, but the truth is they will continue to murder everyone who is not Muslim. Their own religious book states that all will be converted to Islam or be killed. Remember, that book was written by "God" not Mohammed so it is to be taken literally as so many millions of deaths have proven.
As to abortions, it is not an affliction. You don't suddenly become pregnant. It's not a disease that you catch from someone by shaking hands. It is a conscious decision that a person makes to make love to another person. There's no such thing as "whoops, I'm pregnant, how did that happen?"
I like how you said "give them a decent standard of living" in your statement about how poor women wouldn't get enough dough if they pumped out the babies. That's the point, don't give them money and they won't have the babies. I believe in compassion and supporting those who need it, not those who put their hands out because they think they deserve more from those who work hard for a living.
Welfare - The dems tried giving away money for many years and what happened? The welfare hounds stood there day after day with their hands out and asked for more. Did they want to work? Nope, they just wanted the money from the greedy upper class. Now that many states and the feds have adopted the welfare to work programs things are finally starting to turn around and we are getting rid of the leech mentality.
http://www.capmag.com/articlePrint.asp?ID=1975
Schools - more money, more money - The dems pumped billions of dollars into the education system and failed completely. What do they say the problem is? Lack of money of course. Why has it failed? Because there was, and is no accountability. Let's privatize our system already and get rid of the bureaucracy that only protects failures from being removed from their positions. Kalila brings home written and typed memos from her teachers all the time that have misspellings and improper grammar in them.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/99/More-Money.htm
Dig these facts from that page:
" Let's examine the education establishment's more-money-better-education sham. New Jersey ranks number one in the nation in terms of expenditures per student ($10,900). Washington, D.C. is a close second at $10,300. If educationists are right, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. should have the highest level of student achievement in the land. Think again. New Jersey ranks 29th in student achievement. As for Washington, D.C., the only thing preventing it from being dead last in student achievement is Mississippi.
Minnesota ranks first in nation in terms of student achievement and Iowa ranks second. If we accepted the more-money-better education sham, we'd think Minnesota and Iowa are really up there in per student expenditures. Think again. Minnesota ranks 27th in expenditure per student ($6,300) and Iowa ranks a lowly 30th ($6,000). There is no relation between expenditures and student performance."
The modern day answer to the inability of teachers to control their classrooms and give our kids a decent education? Ritalin and lower standards.
You make my arguments easy. I back up most of them with links to pages that either prove or support them. I've yet to see one single link from you to anything factual or proven. A debate based on opinion is empty and insulting. It takes a lot of time, patience and work to prove a point and should be done to prove your point. A debate is a discussion of facts and opinions, not just opinions.
I believe in freedom of speech 100%. I believe it's for both sides, not just the libs. The libs holler when we make any kind of religious or patriotic comment and yet they are allowed to burn the flag and piss on images of Christ or Mother Mary.
Isn't that interesting? Think about it, the conservatives want to get out their message of decency, patriotism and religious freedom out, and the libs want to holler against it and spit on it in the name of free speech.
And another interesting thing is how liberal libs are at throwing insults at people as you did "But as a fascist I guess you think
whatever is right for hitler is right for you."
Just like the German Justice Minister, hate mongering socialist behavior. If we don't agree with you, just insult us.
The liberal message for many years now has been:
1) White males are evil. They hate women, blacks and any other race.
2) Patriotism is a cover up for fascism
3) America is an evil, polluting and dangerous country
4) Republicans "disenfranchise" the masses every chance they get
5) Republicans don't care about the poor, health care or paying employees well.
6) Conservatives are gun toting white boys waiting to kill everyone in site
7) The religious community has no business involving itself in social welfare. That is better left to social welfare programs.
I know you like to push my buttons and laugh when you respond to my articles, but the bit connecting me to Hitler is insulting and just reinforces my argument that libs have no argument, facts or debate, only insults.
Our family was slaughtered by the Nazis and you have no respect for their deaths. Are you another Wellstone liberal in the making?
-----Original Message-----
From: @att.net [mailto:r.v.shinn@att.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:23 PM
To: pete@
Subject: reps
you reps are killin me.
I'm not a jew and am not worried about arabs killin me. How much more racist
can you get than to say arabs are out to kill jews when for thousands of
years europeans were way ahead of them.
You aren't a jew religiously, you don't practice and don't know a thing about
the torah. If you're defining yourself as a jew in terms of race, well then
off to israel to help them if you want to put your money where your mouth is
otherwise give it up.
If abortions were illegal, all that means is that well off americans whether
dems or reps would be off to other countries to get there daughters abortions.
The poor would continue to have babies and everyone would complain about
having to support kids with government money, and it wouldn't be enough
to give them a decent standard of living. The reps are all for allowing
kids to live in a state of misery until they're old enough for prison.
To reps freedom of speech is supposedly protecting kids from pornography.
Give it a rest, you guys don't even want printed words which criticize
america in print. If it were up to, you a library would have only one
book a thousand times, the bible. With some articles by gary fallingwell
and rushtotheright limbaugh thrown in. But as a fascist I guess you think
whatever is right for hitler is right for you.
Hope this gets you into heaven.
posted by Peter Shinn at 11:12 AM
Response to response
Whoop Whoop! Warning Will Robinson. 3 pages of more facts and opinions than you can handle in a day to follow.
Wow, throw a few paragraph breaks into your writing. Otherwise it all blurs together and is hard to read. :)
Much of what I said was my opinion and I said so. The main facts I backed up with links to other pages that have the facts. Other facts were so obvious I didn't bother linking them.
Interesting that you would bring up partial birth abortions and book burning.
America murders almost 1.8 Million people every year under the guise of "what about the life of a woman whose health is in danger". We only have 4 million live births.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_17.asp
Why is it pro-choice and anti-abortion? How about pro-life and anti-life? Doesn't sound so good switched around does it? :)
Opinion: Abortion probably kills more women than the ones whose lives would be in danger if they had the child. Also, what about the destruction of the souls of all of the women that have been lied to about abortion by Planned (wrecked) Parenthood?
Imagine if I was selling euthanasia tools. Would you really want to come to me to decide if you wanted to live or die? Which do you think I would talk you into?
Opinion: Wrecked Parenthood is in the business of death. They sell it to poor unsuspecting girls and women. And they really wanted the stem cell research to be legal so they could profit twice. First murder the children, and then quickly put them in a jar to resell the researchers.
Also, Wrecked Parenthood doesn't give a rats tail about children, only their death machine. Here are some facts to back that up:
http://www.childpredators.com/CoverUp.cfm
As for book banning. I don't know about you, but I don't want my son or daughter going to the library to look for information about the president just to wind up with a web page that says "fuck older women now!" by accident. Just try www.whitehouse.com and you can see how a simple mistake can put you in the wrong place. Don't worry, it's "as seen on TV" so it has to be good for your children.
It's the same for the books. I don't want them to stumble onto something that I don't think they're ready for. Maybe there should be 2 different sections in a library, one for the libs & one for the conservatives. Then you can be free to put all the porn mags on the front shelves of your section. :)
The idea of a Homeland Security Dept. is that it will organize the efforts of the main agencies so that information is shared. It makes sense and the time has come for this. How else should the FBI, CIA, National Security Agency, local enforcement agencies and others communicate?
I didn't interpret facts, I listed them. Notice how you stated that I interpreted facts and didn't list one example?
I didn't mention anything about bowing to my god given powers of correctness. I'm only asking for facts, not the political rants of a man who speaks like a wanna be politician like Keillor. He would make a perfect Dem btw.
In my opinion anyone who supports the murder of innocent children def. has a problem. That includes 99% of the libs obviously. I'm not taking the moral highground, I'm seperating the extreme from the minor. Just like libs do, you know, like they say, marijuana isn't cocaine so it should be legal.
In my opinion, anyone who is liberal is a Dem and anyone who is conservative is a Rep. I think it goes hand in hand. Maybe not 100% of the time but probably 99% anyway.
The tax breaks go to those who actually pay income taxes. People that don't pay taxes shouldn't get taxes should they? Look at how much the wealthy pay in taxes. They pay by far the majority of the income taxes in this country. But of course as a socialist you believe they should pay more right? :)
http://www.taxfoundation.org/sr109.pdf
btw did Keillor decide to attack Coleman only after this election or did he pick it up after he switched parties? It's funny watching a lib holler at someone for having been a lib, like it's a bad thing.
You mention that Coleman is a "known swinger" and you heard that from some cops. Hardly a fact since you can't point to any proof.
Clinton had more affairs than any political figure in history and you didn't mind that at all. You refered to them as insignificant and not related to his presidency or something along those lines. You called something like his "home life" and said it had nothing to do with running the country.
Clinton launched missles into the Sudan while he was having problems with Monica. What did he hit? A pharmaceutical factory and a bunch of innocent civilians.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/SUDAN/sudan.html
He sent our boys into Somalia without taking care of them, getting them killed in a regime change attempt to try and capture Idid. No need for factual links here.
He attacked Kosovo without approval from congress like the libs hammered Bush for with Iraq. Whatdoyaknow...Bush got approval from Congress and the UN. Notice how everyone is quiet now?
http://www.princeton.edu/~pcat/afp/vol2iss1/brucklaw.html
Thank God Clinton, Hillary and Gore went stumping around the country for the Dems. Thank God hate monger Terry McAuliffe is still the DNC chairman. Thank God the Dems think that they need to swing more to the left with Polosi as the minority leader.
A flaming lib, Susan Estritch, said yesterday that the good thing about this last election is that Dems can only go up from here. The last paragraph proves that they really don't believe that. :)
As I mentioned to you before, you know that Sadaam has pledged $25,000 to every family of a martry who takes his life killing Jews. That's equal to $600,000 American if you adjust for per-capita income. The Israelis have found paperwork proving that the payments are being made.
Here is a link to more articles on the Arab hate for the Israelis then you can read in a day:
http://www.likud.nl/extr.html
It's funny how many libs holler about the "cycle of violence" in the Middle East. What would you do if someone came up to you and shot you in the head or blew up your family?
Last fact. Israel was established once again in 1947. From that day forward the surrounding Arab nations have been attacking them. The Palestinians have been misinformed of their situation since then. The Arabs point them at the Israelis as human bombs to make up for their having lost many wars against them.
The Israelis respond to this violence and try to protect their people. It is not a cycle of violence. It is violence perpetuated toward the Israelis. Period.
Think about it, you're a Jew. They will kill you just like any other Jew, even if you want to deny your family history. To them you are a pig and a monkey. If you think that it is old rhetoric check this out from a Saudi Iman:
http://www.factsofisrael.com/load.php?p=http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000102.html
Read the facts on that site if you dare. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: @att.net [mailto:@att.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:25 AM
To: pete
Subject: Re: Garrison Keillor
Fact: Most of what you said is your opinion.
Fact: Interpreting facts with whatever your bias is is your perogative.
Fact: Republicans like you will never be happy until everyone bows to
their god given powers of correctness, and by god we should all be on
the same knee because otherwise we will reveal ourselves to be the godless,
moral-free pagans you say we are. Follow me for the lord tells me the
truth is one of the biggest lies I have ever heard. On to the holy land
to free Jerusalem of the evil arab and loose oil for those who deserve it.
Fact:Garrison Keillor is a native minnesotan who hosts the prairie home
companion and doesn't claim to represent the democratic party.
Fact: The city that Norman was mayor of went democratic.
Fact: Now the publicans are free to create a homeland security department
which will turn into one of the largest pork barrel projects in the history
of America. What the department of War isn't enough to protect us, the FBI
the CIA. And what happened to the publicans promise of less government.
Less government if it sounds good and doesn't interfere with the military
budget and concomittant investment in the industries necessary to maintain it.
God bless america and pass the ammunition.
Fact: For every tax cut where I get 600 dollars back a year some millionaire
gets 20000, I can understand why the rich like this plan, but not why you do
since you're nearly poor, but we should put aside this fact of class so that
the wealthy don't feel embarrassed.
Fact: The CIA launches a missle in the middle of a foreign country killing a
supposed terrorist without having to show a shred of evidence, not to mention
the american who also died. Though the black spot picture featured on the front
page of the various newspapers on the day of the election must have enable
some elephant minded to stand and cheer for the red white and blue. Nothing
like killing the enemy from behind a terminal guiding missles to demonstrate our
courage not to mention validating all those computer geeks all over the country.
Cool.
Fact: I could go on and on, Partial birth abortions for the safety of the
mother, book banning, but in the end it will all come out in the wash.
Now your people are in charge of everything. Let the hearings begin.
The right can't blame "the media" for keeping them from power. They are
the power. Glad I won't have to listen to that whine any more.
Which just goes to show you, you can fool some of the people all of the time,
all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the
time.
The Wellstone boys ought to be ashamed. They did
> it on purpose thinking that's what dear ol' dad would want them to do.
Why should they be ashamed doing what there dad would like them to do?
Fact: Shouldn't Coleman be ashamed because he is a known swinger, hanging
out in Minneapolis with the ladies while his wife works in california trying
to get work as a actress or model. Talk about morals. I've heard this from
minneapolis cops who have seen him out on the town.
Anyway, good luck in Irag.
posted by Peter Shinn at 3:49 AM
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